00:03 - Josh 

Right. All right, so welcome to the inaugural, The Way of Kings podcast. I'm here with- 

0:17 - Joshua Lee

Kicking it off. Yeah. 

0:18 - Josh

Yes. Kicking it off right here. I'm Josh Monin. This is my friend, Joshua Lee Henry, and we are doing a new thing here. So. 

0:31 - Joshua Lee

It's exciting. It's new. It's different. It's, I feel like a little unknown for us, but- You know, one of the things when we talk about the way of kings, you and I say this week show all the time, it's this idea of thinking, living and leading the way of a king. And you know, you and I both it's not a secret, we're both followers of Jesus, the true king. And I think that as we have these conversations around leadership and entrepreneurship and freelancing, you know, we just really felt like the Lord told us to maybe record this as a blessing it as a ministry and a value for others. And so if you're listening to this right now, if you're watching us and we seem like a little bit like, oh, you know, we're trying to figure this out, you know, we are, but we think that this is something that's going to be valuable to you. And so Josh, I'm excited. We are officially recording live the first podcast for the Way of Kings. Thank you, my brother, for helping me make this happen. 

1:28 - Josh

Awesome. Well, I'm excited. So yeah, we've had a lot of good conversations these last couple of months that we've been. Kind of like exploring this idea and what, yeah, we feel like God's put on our hearts to do. And so I like what you said, you know, just like last week, you're like, why don't we just record the first episode? And you're like, yeah, that sounds great. So that's what we're doing here. So this is the first part of our journey. And yeah, we're glad for you guys listening. And yeah, and we decided for this kind of first topic, we're bouncing ideas around, like, why don't we talk about time, you know, because it's such a- such a thing that we all deal with. And there's a lot of good, great time management techniques and methodologies, and we'll share about what we've learned over the years. And that'll be the topic we kind of get into, but before we do, do we want to give any more kind of context, the way of Kings or us or anything like that? 

02:24 - Joshua Lee

I think we can probably dive into some of our background as we get going in the conversation. And as in terms of, you know, context around way of Kings, if you want to say something in particular that you have in your mind, you know, please go ahead, but. 

02:39 - Josh

Sure, yeah, no, I think you summed it up well, really, you know, the vision for this is to serve people who are kingdom minded and who are in business, you know, to whatever degree that is, you could be a freelancer, a solopreneur, an entrepreneur, the big business, small business owner, but basically, you're not depending on. someone else for your paycheck, right? So we're just, we're in a different world, because we're entrepreneurs. And we also are followers of Christ, like you said. And so how do we, you know, how do we follow God's ways? I think of that verse and, you know, Isaiah, where it's, you know, God's saying like, my, my ways are higher than your ways, my thoughts are higher than your thoughts. And I don't think he's saying that just to say, Hey, you know, I'm better than you and I have better way. I think he's, it's an invitation to, you know, have

Have a different way of living, you know, and how does that translate into business? And, you know, we just have had some great conversations, you and I about this, and we're like, wow, there's something here, you know, and we just wanna kind of be obedient and pursue that. And so I'm excited, yeah, as to really think through and discover, you know, there's that verse in Proverbs 2 that says, you know, it's the glory of God to. you know, conceal a matter and the glory of Kings to search out a matter. And I feel like that's what we're even doing with this. Like we were searching out like the way of Kings, of being a business person, an entrepreneur in this day and age and also following the Lord and seeking his kingdom first. So yeah, that's really, you know, the heart of it. And yeah, that's it. 

04:20 - Joshua Lee

I love that too, man, because you know, we talk about this a lot, you know. in some regard that God's ways are not the ways of this world. And so already we are set apart. But even when you look at things in the physical and in this world, freelancing, being a solopreneur, being an entrepreneur, being a business owner, it is so not the norm already. And so we're like double out of the majority because believers and followers of Jesus plus also then being business owners and freelancers. And so I have found that that place can be lonely. And that's why I've enjoyed our relationship and have benefited so much from this. And so, you know, with the way of Kings, we want to provide that community to others that maybe are looking for that brotherhood that are looking for that community that knighthood to be a part of something that that is meaningful. And, you know, speaking about the way of Kings and that other worldly concept, you know, heavenly concept, let's talk about time because..

You're exactly right. And you know, today's topic on time management, and using time and all things time. You've got some interesting perspective on this. I know we're going to share some of our stories on on how we view time. But I want to hear from you because you've got a really unique on time and things that God has been sharing with you and showing you over the last couple of months. So do you want to talk about that?

05:49 - Josh

Sure, yeah, I just feel like one of the things God’s challenge me in is having a better relationship with time. So like in my morning devotions, sometimes I just take a little bit to be quiet and listen and kind of jot down in my journal what I feel like God's saying. And over and over, I just felt like this idea of time and specifically how I relate to time. And so yeah, I feel like I've been on a journey here for a little while. And because like a lot of entrepreneurs, freelancers, I… I feel like I just always have way more things I need to do than there's time in the day and it can be overwhelming and it can be stressful and things like that. And I feel like I've been making some progress with some of these different things that I've been exploring and just really starting with, like, how do we have a better relationship with time? How do, you know, because I still wanna be impactful, effective, efficient and all those kinds of things, but I wanna do it in a...

in a place of like out of peace and joy and where I'm not feeling like I'm just too busy. I can't even think and I don't have time to, you know talk to my kids or anything. And so, so yeah, I just been kind of exploring that for us, like for our family even it's been affecting different things. Like I started to really take like the Sabbath more seriously. So like that was just within the last two or three months. And so I've always. Not worked on Sundays, you know, but it was always like a day for just not working. You know, it was not really a day I honestly looked forward to because I was like, well, go to church, you know, don't work, watch some football, go Seahawks. But, you know, it's just like, it was, it didn't have this like, there wasn't a lot of joy to it. And now like it's my favorite day of the week, I can just honestly say. And, and so just like even that, like, like really getting back to like honoring the Sabbath and we do some fun.

Rituals around that of, you know, Saturday night, we light the candles and we say some blessings and the kids have loved it. Lacey, my wife is really enjoying it. And even when we have guest or they've been saying, it's like, wow, that was a really special experience and just sets the tone for that whole rest of the day. And yeah, it's been, it feels like a vacation almost like every week and it's been awesome. And.. And that has like affected the rest of the week too. The reason I'm even talking about that, it's like, well, what does that have to do with, you know, time management and work and everything? I feel like it has a lot to do with it, you know, cause now I'm like, I have a standard of like peace and rest and I'm reminded of that once a week. And then throughout the week, if I'm getting away from that, I'm like, okay, well I'm deviating now I'm not in that restful place, you know, and I'm getting back into striving and things like that. So I'm trying to… You know, stay in that place of rest and peace and not worry and still get all the important things done on my to-do list. So yeah, that's some of the kind of bigger picture stuff that I've been just experimenting with and trying to listen to the Lord about. And I'm already seeing some, you know, some good fruit in it. And I feel like it is carrying over to the, you know, the other six days of the week. 

09:04 - Joshua Lee

I love that man. And, you know, I don't know about you, but for me as an entrepreneur as a personality type, I joke with my wife. I don't feel like I'm normal unless I'm busy. Like I'm always doing something. I always have multiple plates spinning. And I think a lot of entrepreneurs are like that. It's that entrepreneurial ADD where, you know, it's like the saying, if you want to get something done, ask a busy person. Like I just don't like idle hands. I don't have idle time, you know? And so I feel like I'm constantly doing something. And I want to talk on that in a moment, but I want to get back to what you said because there's something interesting. Now, I used to be, like this is not theology class, everybody, so this is not seminary class. I did spend some time in ministry though. And one of the things that I learned very early on in ministry, public ministry, we're all called the ministry, by the way, I'll just throw that out there right now. I think you and I both run our businesses as ministry, right? But.

One of the things I learned in my ministry training, seminary training was that in the Jewish tradition, and I'm not Jewish, but in the New Testament Jewish tradition, the Sabbath actually begins on Saturday evening and starts the week. Yeah. In our Western calendar, we think the weekend is the week's end, the end of the week. And so we have it in our Western thought to where the weekend is made from resting from work. The work that we do Monday through Friday, we rest on the weekend, Saturday and Sunday. When in reality, the lifestyle that Jesus modeled in the New Testament was working from rest. He rested first on the Sabbath. And from that rest of filling up his emotional, spiritual intimacy with the Father, that emotional gas tank, if you will, that's what he ministered out of throughout the rest of the week. We have it flipped.

You know, in our Western society so much of the time where we work all week and then we rest in the weekend. In reality, that resting time is supposed to fill us up and energize us for the work to come, the future to come, you know? There's a guy I follow quite a bit. I used to do a lot of ministry with his name is Mike Breen. And we'll probably talk about him later on in depth. But you know, he has a series of what he calls life shapes. And one of those life shapes, the very first life shape is the circle. These are nine geometric shapes and the first one is the circle. And it's this principle of Kairos moments, which we're going to get into in a moment as well. And Kairos moments are really understanding that we work from a restful place of intimacy with the father and anything that we do in life and in ministry and in business needs to come from that and flow out of that. And so.. What you just brought up, Josh, we've never talked about that before, but this idea of Sabbath and how that's not like the letdown from the week that really should be the build up into the week to come. 

12:09 - Josh

Totally. Yeah. No, it's interesting. I wasn't expecting that when I felt like this invitation from the Lord when he's like, Hey, I want to speak you about time and I’m thinking okay, what’s the new time management technique you know I love David Allen getting things done and all this kind of stuff, Stephen Covey, it's great. And it's all good. But so I was expecting, you know, maybe something like that. But, you know, starting with the Sabbath is like, oh, okay. This is, I guess this does seem like the Lord, you know? It's like, we get really getting to the heart of the matter, you know, and just, yeah, having a different posture with how we approach life. And really that's, I think, part of the way of King's what we're talking about. There's a way to do life. There's a way to do business. And there's a, you can have a quality of life even.

In the getting things done and hitting goals and, and yeah, we want to grow our businesses and we're unapologetic about it. That's great. That's what we're called to do. We're called to be profitable and, and, uh, solve problems. And there's, there's lots of stuff to do, but yeah, doing it from a place of, of, of rest is just, it's, it's way more effective too. Cause you think better. I realize, I mean, you can come up with better creative ideas when you're not in that stress mode. So, Um, so yeah, that's, that's been exciting, just the Sabbath. And then, you know, even on learning to incorporate that even into the day to day stuff, you know, like what does that look like practically for me too? Like it's like, uh, taking more breaks, you know, it sounds very simple, but, um, you know, something I learned years ago, even writing copy and maybe, you know, like to hear your process. We never really talk a lot about our, our personal processes of writing copy and things like that. But, um, I remember when I, I think it was first

When I first discovered this, it was Eugene Schwartz. I heard him talking about his little timer method. You know, he set a timer for 33 minutes and 33 seconds and he'd write and work. And then it would buzz and for five minutes, he go take a break and play with the dog or something that he'd come back. And, um, so I started experimenting with that and taking, taking these little micro breaks and, and, uh, now my, I found my sweet spot personally is I work for. 50 minutes. I take a 10 minute break, another 50 minute focus session, 10 minute break. And I can usually have enough mental stamina to do maybe like three or four of those really intense in the mornings. And I can get a lot done that kind of, you know, rhythm. But the break part is, is very much necessary because I know when I violated that principle, I just, I can't, you know, it's just, it's not as good as taking that break, you know, once an hour getting up and I have a dart board in here. So I'll throw darts or I'll go out and you know,

Say hi to the kids or walk around and do something, just try to get my mind off it, but then coming and sit back down and work again. And I think even that is like part of that principle, just this rhythm of work, rest, work, rest, you know, you see it, you zoom out, you have it at the week level, one day a week, but even like within an hour, you could do that. It's like, okay, it's 50 minutes and then 10 minutes of rest. And it's like, oh, this works better. So yeah, it's just interesting seeing these principles, how they play out throughout.

15:11 - Joshua Lee

You know, you just said something, dude. And I gotta get me a dart board. I used to have a dart board a long time ago and I would have, I love playing darts. I need a dart board out in my office. Yeah, you do. I'm gonna buy that tonight. You know, you just said something, man, that like, you know, guy just dropped this in my heart right now. You know, so much of life is about rhythm. Rhythm is about timing. Cycles, seasons, you know, we've got daylight savings coming up, you know, as we record this, this weekend. And you said that, you know, giving that room for rest and creativity to flow from your unconscious during those breaks in the day, the thing that I thought of, and I just, I got this vision is like a person breathing in and out, inhale and exhale. And inspiration literally means like the breath of God breathing in that inspiration of creative, you know, inhaling. And it's almost like with work and rest, when we inhale, it's like we're doing work. That's like the, you know, the work of our bodies to inhale. And then when we exhale,

It's like that rest, you know what I mean? So it's like this constant flow, you know? And that's how creative inspiration hits. People talk about eureka moments, you know, having a breath of fresh air, having that new creative idea in the shower, whatever it might be. But I also find, you know, God, I believe God can talk to us at any point. You know, if he can talk through, you know, bam's donkey, you know, he can talk to us at any point in the day. But I do think that sometimes we get too busy to where we don't allow the opportunity. to hear God's voice. He might be trying to get our attention and we just ignore him because we have too much going on. And so I think the other thing that having those timeout moments, those breaks in the day, whether or not you're doing anything quote unquote spiritual, just throwing the dartboard, throwing the darts to the dartboard, you allow that room to hear from God. And I think that's where some of those Kairos moments can really happen. And so why don't we talk maybe about what Kairos means, what that looks like in some significant Kairos moments, maybe you've experienced in your business and how that really relates to time in this conversation here. 

17:30 - Josh

Yeah, yeah, that's good, yeah, because a lot of our listeners probably know there's difference between Kairos and Kronos time, and the Bible and Kronos being where you have the term, chronological order and just how we think about there's so many minutes in a day and all that sort of stuff. And then, the Kairos moments, it's like, that's the like, it's time for this, you know, it's like, this is the right opportune time. And, and really wanting to avail ourselves and open up ourselves to like having more of those moments because it's amazing. Yeah. What, what God can do when, when he breaks through and suddenly something happens that would have took us weeks or months or years on our own, trying to just, you know, strive after something, but God can do a lot of times in a moment, you know?

Just being aware of that, allowing for those things to happen. And then even like, I also think too about like big decisions in life. I feel like those are Kairos moments a lot of times. It's like, okay, it's time to do something. Like we moved down to Texas about two years ago, January will be our two year mark. But a couple of years ago, we felt like there was a, it was time to make a move. It was just, it was a timing thing. You know, it was like, we just felt like our kids were a certain age. We were either going to put deeper roots down in Washington state where we were living, or we were going to make a move and before the kids got older. So there was just a, I would say like a Kairos moment in our family. We were like, you know, we need to just really take this seriously. So we started praying every morning together, me and my wife and just putting it before the Lord. Like, is this really you Lord? What's going on? We feel stirred up to.

To move and launch out somewhere else. And it was confirmed and we really felt like, yeah, this is the time to make the move. And now we're down here in Texas and that's a whole other story. But I just think of things like that, that change kind of the trajectory of your life. And even from, think about when I quit the corporate job 12 years ago, cause I felt like it's time to do my own thing. I'm not meant to have this kind of job, nothing wrong with that if that's what you're meant for. But for me, it was not a good fit to just have a corporate sales job and have a safe, secure paycheck. And this is life and work here for 30 years and then you're gonna retire. And I'm like, that's not life. And I just felt there was a time like, okay, it was the right time to do it. Even though I didn't have all these clients lined up and didn't feel like, on the outside, it didn't look like the right time. But… I knew there was a window of time to just, to launch out. And that came through a lot of, yeah, meditation and prayer and getting counsel and things like that too. So just, yeah, I think being aware of like the time, the time that we're in and different seasons of our lives and allowing for those times of just the sudden things that got to the breakthroughs. So I think it's, yeah, it's really important. 

20:40 - Joshua Lee

I think that, you know, what you described, kind of that point of decision, that point of opportune, you know, moment, that point of, of action, you know what I mean? Like where everything after that is part of a new chapter, right? Like moving to Texas, you've got your life and your family pre Texas, you've got life post Texas, you know, we've got life before Christ, we have life after Christ, we have life before becoming a freelancer, life after becoming a freelancer. And so for a business owner, entrepreneur, wherever the case is, point of life before marriage and after, before you were kids and after. So there's always like a marking, a change that takes place, almost like a metamorphosis, if you will, where you go from one state into another state. You know what I'm saying? A state of being, a state of living. And I feel like when I go through and, you know, sometimes I geek out on words as a copywriter, I geek out on these words. 

And it's interesting because I was doing, I told you about this, a word study on that, kairos. Kairos and kairos are both Greek words in the New Testament. They're two of the four words that Jesus used to describe time. You know, kairos is that chronological order. Kairos is this opportune time, this decision point. And it's amazing because in Mark, when Jesus is talking, he says, you know, repent for the kingdom of God is at hand. And when he says at hand, what that means is it's a time, it's a sentence in relation to time, that it is so close that you can reach out and touch it, that God's kingdom is here, and God's kingdom is where the king is. So when Jesus is saying that now is the time to repent, it's because you are in the presence of the king. And there's an action where you will leave this encounter different from the way you were before. 

22:40 - Josh

That's so good. Yeah. I didn't know that about at that hand, you know, being kind of one of those Kairos moments. That makes sense though. So I love that. Yeah. That's really good. 

22:52 - Joshua Lee

But it's a change though, dude. It's like a change. You know what I mean? It's like you get married, you have your kid, you buy your first home, you start your business like. There's that changing, like, I will never be before that. I will never be who I was before this time again. You know what I mean? Those chiro-smolms. And they can be big. Those are big examples, of course, obviously coming to know the Lord, getting married. Those are big examples, but they're also small things. You know, times where maybe you've had this, I've had moments, Josh, where I knew this was the last conversation I'm gonna have with this person ever again. I've had Kairos moments where I think I want something. Maybe there's a house that we wanted to buy. We drive by it, we look at it, we want that house, we want that house, we want that house, we drive by it one night, and God says, that's not the house you're gonna buy.

You know what I mean? I've had these moments since like those, you look back and you think, well, how big was that? How much did that determine my future things? But it's like, it's really allowing God to shape and direct that path for you, you know? But you have to be attuned. I think of all, you know, I mentioned this to you earlier in the week, I think of all of the times Jesus was on a path, he was on a mission. The disciples were trying to take him to another city. He was healing people. All this and the number of times that he's interrupted. Always has times for interruptions. And I'll be honest with you, man. If I'm writing copy and somebody interrupts me, I get ticked off. I get annoyed. I get angry. We lose that flow state. And I think that flow state is an important part of creativity and productivity. But I do think that one of the enemy's greatest, you know.

Tricks and weapons against, you know, kingdom-minded leaders like us and others, those that are listening to us right now, is that, you know, he will not allow us to be interrupted by God's work. You know, sometimes he tries to interrupt us because we're doing God's work. Other times, he doesn't want us to be, you know, quote unquote distracted with God's work. You know, those interruptions that Jesus said. Think of the woman with the, you know, the bleeding, you know, and Jesus says, who touched me? Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. 

25:02 - Josh

Oh yeah, that's so good. I was just thinking about something one of my first pastors told me, the first pastor I ever had after I got saved. And I came out of a life of, you know, drug addiction and alcoholism and all this kind of stuff. And God radically saved me in my early twenties. But I remember I was meeting with my pastor and he's like, if the devil can't get you to say no to the call of God, he'll try to get you to say yes to everything. Like sometimes in the name of the call of God. And I'm like, oh, you know, it was like, but it just, it hit me. He was giving me counsel because he saw, I think, how busy I was even with ministry stuff. And you can be busy with, you know, just even good things too, you know? It's not always bad things. It's not like, oh, I'm distracted by all these terrible things. It's like, no, it could even be the good things of work and ministry and stuff like that. But if it's getting in a way of, like, you're saying, like, there's some divine appointment that the Father has, you know, like Jesus was.

I mean, he had very important things he was doing, you know, but, you know, he's in a crowd and someone touches them or, you know, they're, they're on their way somewhere, like you're saying, and something else happens on the way to something that is important. But he had time for that. And when I hear about that, I feel convicted because I'm like, man, I'm such a, I like my structure and my routine and my schedule. I mean, you can ask my wife, she is, uh, doesn't share the same love for structure as I do. So it creates some interesting dynamics in our relationship. Hey, if we said we're gonna wake up at this time and work out from this time to this time and have morning devotions, I'm like, let's do it. And that's one of the things too the Lord's been working with me on is not being so rigid. You know, it's like, it's good to have discipline. It's good to have structure and everything. But when it gets to the point where it's heavy or too rigid and you don't have time for like, hey, this just happened in the moment and it makes sense to let's just.

Park here for a while and like have a conversation or let's have a little bit longer call or let's, you know, we're on a walk and we're having a good conversation. Let's not just cut it off right now. Let's finish it. Like there's, there's times that, you know, just you need to allow, you know, and yeah, maybe God put someone in your path. Like you're just getting gas and someone's filling up on the other side and it's time to talk with this person and you got somewhere to go. And it's like, if we always got somewhere to go and you don't have time for these things that God's throughout to putting right in our path that you like that's, That's an issue, right? I think of this other quote was, busyness is not from the devil, it is the devil. Carly said that, you know, it's just like, yeah, you know, this being too busy, it's a, I don't feel like that's the way of Kings, you know? So I'm like, I wanna be a good steward of time and not waste it. That's on like one end of the spectrum, but I don't wanna be so rigid and busy that I'm missing the things that God's dropping right in our laps, you know?

27:56 - Joshua Lee

Can you say that again? You said if the devil can't, what was that quote? You said your 

27:59 - Josh

Yeah, Pastor Paul, if the devil can't get you to say no to the call of God, then he'll try to get you to say yes to everything in the name of that call. 

28:08 - Joshua Lee

That is so good, man. I know, John Maxwell, you know, he's always talk about there's a difference between activity and accomplishment. I mean, you and I both, I mean, we get bombarded with opportunities. It's so easy, especially once you start.Yyou know, getting some momentum in your career, your business, you know, you know, people that are achieving things that are getting results, you know, giving too many clients, having too many projects, too many offers, requests for proposals, so many opportunities that just come flooding your way. And having that discernment to say no to things, especially, I mean, especially for me, just being honest, like. I grew up lower middle class, you know, and I'm making more money now in my mid thirties than I ever saw, you know, my parents have, you know, at two and three times as much, you know? And so when I started my own business, I mean, we were in such a low place financially and with stress and burdens and health issues that like I said yes to every project I could sell and every project that came my way because, you know, I was, you know, for fear of not having enough money and.

And not having enough work and make hay while the sun's out and all this kind of stuff. But then you get to a point to where it's like, I'm doing too much. I need to do less. I need to do less better, more effectively. And that could be hard because you have to rebuke that fear of poverty. You have to rebuke that fear of lack because that's not the King's way. In fact, the King's way is a way of abundance. You know, we have these five A's that we can unpack it as we have more calls. But, you know, one of those is this idea of abundance. I think abundance is, you know, defined not only as time, but in relationship, and also money, you know, and, you know, those three areas at a minimum. But time affects so much of that, you know, it's the greatest resource, you know, more valuable than money. 

30:04 - Josh

Oh, yeah. Yeah. So much. I want to... piggyback on something you're saying about the, just going after all the work, you know, anything that comes your way. Cause I, you know, fell into that mentality too. We have similar backgrounds, you know, didn't have much money, you know, growing up and you know, how to shed that poverty kind of thinking. Um, and it's hard, it's hard to do. It's hard to say no to somebody waving. money in front of you saying, will you do this? Like, well, yeah, money, you know, and it's like, will you do this and this and this? Like, will you sacrifice more? It's it's hard, especially when you have your own business where it's like, well, I can, I can work longer days, I could work on the weekends, I could, you know, wake up a little earlier. So but but at what what cost, you know, I think of that proverb where it says, you know, if you're a man given to appetite, but a knife to your throat, right? If you're sitting down to eat with a ruler, it's like, there's rulers out there's people have

Money and they're like, Hey, we need copy. We need promos. We need this. We need that. And it's, uh, it's hard, um, to, to say no, but you know, I, I feel like one of these kinds of Kairos times I had years ago that was pivotal for my business was when I started saying no more, saying no more, um, no more often, um, because I used to work with, I don't know, probably like five, six, sometimes seven, you know, different clients or projects in a month, you know, like different ones. And my mind was so fractured and scattered and I was not even operating at my best, you know, for the work that I was doing, just trying to keep up with all these different things. And then I went to a model where I'd work with maybe one or two clients a month, maybe take on a little side project here or there in addition, but my, the effectiveness, the results just skyrocketed. I was getting way better results for my clients. I was making more money. I had more.

Sanity in my life and peace. And it was actually, you know, quote, doing less, you know, working with less fewer clients, but playing a bigger role and started having these retainers and things. And that really, you know, caused me to go on a whole different path in my, you know, my freelance business. But, but it had, it had, you know, I had to get to the point where I had to say no to things. People come say, Hey, will you write these few emails? Will you do this? And like, no, you know, I just don't have the bandwidth, you know, and that was not always easy to turn those kinds of projects down. So that's a really good point. 

32:30 - Joshua Lee

I think, you know, I was talking to somebody today, a leader in the financial publishing space where I write and, you know, he was talking about the quote from Craig Groeschel, pastor of Life Church, that every time you say yes to something, you say no to something else. And a lot of people have said things similar to that. But it's true. And I have found, you know, when I had all those I could say yes to those, but if I said no to those, that gave me room to say yes to something bigger. I would rather work on one big project and do it with all my energy and focus and creative ability than to have 17 little projects that all distract and divert attention. When you have that big focus, you're allowed to let that momentum build. But I mean, you're still right, man, because…

I mean, I've worked so many, the number of like late night all nighters, where I work until 5 a.m., 6 a.m., where I've got a deadline. And you're ministering to me right now because I need to do a better job of treating my time with my family as if it were a deadline. I mean, maybe you've had this experience, but I've had promos where it's like, I've got to get this done by 8 a.m. tomorrow, it's going to legal. Well, do I operate with that same kind of urgency, spending time with my family? You know, or Sabbath or having that intimacy with the Lord. Do I have that same kind of deadline and urgency to get my Bible time in every morning? You know what I mean? Like, some days I don't, you know, some days I don't. 

34:01 - Josh

Yeah, that's hard. You gotta like, even today too, me, I'm just like, I'm still not having arrived, you know? It's like, it's progress, you know, not perfection with this stuff. And it's, but I've realized like, you gotta fight for it. You know, like I just, especially I feel like the more responsibilities you have in life. You know, it's like, as the kids get older, as the business grows, we want to stay healthy physically, all these different things, there's different opportunities in ministry and, and it's like these important relationships. You just like, you got to fight for them, you know, so that's like, like date night. I was just like, we, we fight for that every Friday night. We're just like, uh, you know, there's all these other things we could do. We could say no to it, but most every Friday night, you know, Lacey and I go and have date night, you know, and that's part of just saying, you know what, this is set aside time. And on Wednesday nights, most Wednesday nights, I do quality time with the kids. And, but again, just have to fight for it. I don't always have the energy cause I'm like, man, sometimes I'm like, well, I just, I don't have any more mental bandwidth, emotional bandwidth. I just want to just kind of maybe zone out or something after work. Like, no, you know, this is something I'm, it's worth fighting for. And sure enough, when I, when I.

Go do it and we go out to eat or something with the kids. I just, you know, I get renewed sense of energy and joy and everything, but it's just, yeah, fighting for these things as life gets busy. So I like what you said too. It's like when we say yes to something, we're saying no to something else, you know? And so, and that's helped me even like increase my rates, which is a weird kind of connection, but it's like, if I'm going to take a project and if I'm going to charge less than what I'm worth, that's actually costing time with my family. And once that connection got made in my mind, it gave me more confidence to say, this is my price. I'm sorry if it doesn't work out, but if I'm going to lower that, it's my family that's paying because I'm gonna have to take on more work. I'm gonna have to put in more hours. And so, it all comes full circle. 

35:59 - Joshua Lee

Yeah, I mean, there's so much that we could say on that. Yeah, I mean, when you really understand you know, the cost to other meaningful things, family and faith included, it really puts things into perspective, you know. Well, why don't we talk for a few minutes about practical things that you do in your business, you know, to get everything done, man. I mean, you're a busy guy, got lots of little kids, you know, beautiful family, like, how do you, how do you manage your time? 

36:30 - Josh

Yeah, I can share a few things. And love to hear the same from you, too. I'm curious. So something like practical ways for me, like every week, I do a, I guess maybe I can start at the quarter. So I like to do a quarterly plan, you know, every quarter, just to take some time. I've gotten away from it since we moved to Texas. I wanna get back to this, but I got to the point where I was taking like, like an overnight trip by myself, which sounds a little selfish, and maybe it is in some respects, but it gave me the time and the place to really, go deep and think about the next 90 days. And so I would just rent an Airbnb somewhere kind of close by and, and we'd go out there, take some books, my journals, my notes, whatever I need. And I would just take a day, day and a half. Usually I pick some work and go hiking or something like that and set my intentions and my goals and the vision and have some time of prayer and, and really map out what that next 90 days looks like.

One of the fun places I went to is a tree house, actually in Washington that overlooked this like cool waterfall and everything. I found it on Airbnb and went out there. And unfortunately there was a windstorm that night and the tree house, I feel like I almost blew out of the tree and I was like, am I gonna die? This is crazy. But anyways, that's a story for another time. But… But yeah, so like 90 day plans, you don't have to be in a tree house blowing off the side of a cliff, but you can just, you know, even taking some time going to a coffee shop for, you know, a few hours or going somewhere out, maybe outside your normal environment has been really helpful. And having some sort of structure or questions that, you know, I asked myself, and I can share some of these links in the, you know, I think we'll give away a helpful resource here at the end. And I'll try to link to some of these things if people want some templates, but yeah, the 90 day plan.

And then having a weekly plan has helped me. And what helps me with that is the way that I start that. I just opened a plain text document. I used to do all the fancy journals and systems and softwares and stuff, but I found just a plain text document. I use ByWord because I just like the interface. It's all clean and everything. And I start with a vision. I just say, okay, like a lot of times I'll do this on Saturdays, you know, maybe Saturday morning, Friday afternoon, but I'll just, I'll think about the coming week and I'll write it. Like it's already there, you know, so I'll say, you know, say I'm doing it on Saturday, like tomorrow's going to be Saturday. So I'll do this tomorrow and I'll be, I'll write it and I'll say, okay, it's Saturday, the following Saturday at 3pm. I'm sitting here at my favorite coffee shop and it was a great week. Uh, and I'm feeling good with my progress because this happened and I kind of just let it unfold from there. And it's, so I feel like that's a way I'm learning to.

Kind of partner with the Lord and use, you know, just my own mind of like planning things. And so it's, it feels like a good place, you know, cause I'm like, okay, well, what would I actually be happy with like this week? And, and so I'm like, okay, like I'm not gonna get everything in life done in a week, you know? So just realizing I'm gonna make a certain amount of progress this week, what would need to happen for me to be happy with it? And like, kind of like the dance old in question, if we were talking three years from now, what would happen, you know, but just applied for next week. Like, okay, well, this, this, this, this, write it out in that kind of story vision form. This just only takes a few minutes, you know, to do. And then, then I look at that and I'm like, okay, what's any, what are the three big rocks of the week? And usually there's three, you know, three things in there. Say, okay, then those are my three goals. And I write that at the top is my three weekly goals. And, and then I just kind of let that guide, if I'm really on top of it, you know, I'll, I'll sketch out like Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, kind of like,

Uh, summarize what I want to get done those days. A lot of times I don't get to that and I'll just kind of do that the day before each day. Um, but I'll have that weekly vision outline. So it'll guide me. So then when it's, you know, Tuesday at the end of the day, Tuesday, and I'm thinking about Wednesday, I'm like, well, what am I doing tomorrow? I go back to that and say, okay, oh yeah, this is, these are my three rocks. This is the vision. This is where I am at the progress. And then I'll just map out the plan for the next day in that plain text document. And I set my three goals for the day there too. And yeah, it does always go perfect. No, it's like I get off course and track and sometimes I'm hitting those goals, sometimes I'm not, but at least it gives me something to aim for. And I guess the last thing I'll say on that is I also try to end the day with three wins, and just say, okay, to close out the day, what were the three wins so I can feel good about. That and I'm taking that more seriously, like celebrating and the wins naturally, I don't do that. I'm always thinking about the next thing. Okay, good. That's checked off the list. Moving on to the next thing. Before I would never take any time to pause and say, hey, that was good. So yeah, that's a few kind of like practical ways I do my planning.

41:38 - Joshua Lee

That's really helpful, man. I love that Dan Sullivan question, you know, if you know, three to five years, you know, from now, what would have to happen in order for this to be a success? You know, it'd be a home run, a grand slam. What would have to have happened? And it's good because it allows, and I like your, if I understood you right, you write it as if it's like past tense, right? So like, you're like future. So like all of the literature I've ever read on goal setting is to write stuff like in present or past tense. Like I have lost 50 pounds, right? I have, you know, I have, you know, lifted five times this week or wherever the case is. And so, it like reinforces, I don't know, something in your subconscious or something like that, you know, but it is helpful. You know, I think I do something kind of similar in terms of the big rock piece. You know, that comes from Stephen Covey and every week I've got the big rocks, the big things I have to get done.

And that's usually a combination of stuff that's personal for the family, stuff that's business related, and then the different ventures that I'm a part of. I might have a client work thing, I might have a podcast thing, I might have a teaching that I'm doing, and maybe some promo that I've got a deadline for or whatever. And then banks and other just errand type stuff for the family that has to get done. And so what I do is I map those big rocks out first on my calendar. And then I fill in everything else in the surrounding time based on energy management. Like I do a lot of my calls in the afternoons. Morning time is meant for creativity. So writing and also having that intimacy with the Lord. And so that's when I do my Bible time. That's when I do, the majority of my best writing happens from eight to 11 in the morning and or eight to 11 at night. Once the kids are in bed and I've got those first couple of hours before midnight.

To bang out any extra copy I need. That's when I'm most creative and most productive from an idea generation standpoint. But from there, once I have my big rocks on the calendar and I begin filling things in with the pebbles, the small stuff, what I do every day is I'm old school. So you've got your plain text document. I have a legal pad, yellow legal pads. I go through dozens of them in a couple of months. And I just move stuff over from day to day. And I outline it between personal stuff, business stuff, client stuff, and then passion projects that I have going on. And I list those big rocks at the top, and then I start filling in the pebbles. And I know I indicate sometimes with numbers, Roman numerals and letters, priority and subsets, just like you would on an outline, and I rank them. And I rank them by important, urgent, things that have an action or a decision that needs to be made,

Things for now are things that can wait till later. So everything is either important or urgent, an action or a decision now or later. And I asked myself, and so if it's like not important, not urgent, well, it's not on my list. It's a non-issue. If it's important, not urgent decision, but it can wait till later, not on the list. You know what I'm saying? And I just like move everything from day to day and week to week. And I just cross things off. And you're right, I've been celebrating the wins at the end of each day. I look back, did I get the big rocks done? If I didn't get the big rocks done, what happened? What interrupted, you know, interruption? If it was, you know, a bad interruption that took me away from work, not a good interruption like we talked about earlier, you know, how did that happen? Why did I allow that to happen? Did I have to tackle something more important? You know, I think of...

Henry Cloud and his classic book, Boundaries, you know, you get what you create and allow. So did I not get my goals done because I created a diversion that I allowed to distract myself, or was it somebody else's priorities that I allowed to be enforced on my agenda? What was the reason I didn't get this done? And that has been good because this created personal accountability for me to make the most use of my time, to steward my time wisely. And it also keeps me on track with my goals. And then, I do other things like throughout the night, in the middle of the night or when I'm having dinner, if I think of something, I will voice text it to myself. And if it's really important, then I will email it to myself. I think that's like a typical copywriter hack. I think like every copywriter I know like sends themselves emails, things to do the next day. I'm guilty of that too. Yeah, and then I've got, I started using a whiteboard for like annual plans.

And that's been good, but I found because it's good to have annual stuff in front of me, but like I'm not writing new things on that board all the time, you know what I mean? So it's kind of more just like to have that big goal for the year, two or three big goals for the year. And when I'm really in crunch mode, and if I do have a lot of plates spinning and I need to keep myself in order, that's when I go to my three by five note cards. And that's when I take the two or three most important things from all the different legal pads, because I have legal pads for each client or project. And so every project is split up into a folder system and a legal pad system. So I can just grab legal pad to legal pad when I'm jumping on different calls. But when I'm really in a crunch time, in the days when my wife and I were pregnant, if it was like in that third trimester and baby was coming, or when I've got a promo launching and I'm in the middle of like final legal review, I'll break out the note cards. And now I'm only putting a couple of things on here and nothing else matters. And I basically go AWOL, you know, absent without leave on some other things because at that point I become, you know, a monomaniac on a mission. I've got one mission that I'm trying to get done in a certain timeframe and nothing else matters. Like everything else is subservient to that. 

47:31 - Josh

I love that. That's so good. I can just see you walking around with your three by five chords. Like don't bug me. I'm a man on a mission, I'm on a maniac on a mission. I love that. That's so good. It just, it takes what it takes though. I mean, this, what I hearing is that ability to hyper-focus when you really need to, you know? And I will say that's a great benefit, I think, from having a career in copywriting that we both, sounds like we've learned is that the power of a deadline and just it's gotta get done and it's gotta happen. It's gotta be good. And it doesn't matter what you're feeling like. It doesn't matter. If the muse is playing, it doesn't matter. None of that. It's just, it's here and you, and whatever you got to do to focus. I just, I don't know how it feels like for you, but it feels like a muscle that gets built up over the years where it's like, you learn to be able to focus at a very deep level, um, to produce something that hopefully is, is, is pretty good. And, uh, and then you got to rest, right? And then going back to what we talked about before, it's like, otherwise you'll kind of burn out if you're just trying to do that all the time. But when it calls for it, it's a good skill and a good muscle to have worked. So that's so good. 

48:44 - Joshua Lee

Dan Kennedy calls it clearing the calculator. It's like when your your function numbers in your calculator, you hit that clear button, everything goes away. It's like a dry erase board, you erase it. Or the old exoskeks, you shake it up and it all disappears. It's like you have to be able to hyper-focus, but when it's done, it's time to rest, it's family time, you hit the clear button, you turn it off, and as hard as it is, because I have a hard time stopping, like just being present, being in the moment, we can talk about that maybe on the next episode or something, but the ability to just stop, like, okay, time to stop, and you have to clear that calculator, otherwise you get burned out. 

49:27 - Josh

Oh yeah, yeah, I've been working on that more lately is trying to… I've been good with my startup, you know, routines and, and morning routines and always kind of, you know, tinkering with those. Uh, but the shutdown kind of routine I haven't always been good at, and I've been working on that more and it's been, it's been helpful, you know, to have a more clear cut time to shut down. Um, and for me, that's like right in the three wins for the day and doing one last pass in my inbox, so I don't feel like I have to go check it later at night on my phone. Like, okay, there's nothing urgent. It'll be okay for me not to look at this until tomorrow morning, just telling myself, like you got permission, get off Slack, get off email, write the three wins. And then I like to go for a walk. That's really big for me as you know, I walk out and I work on this office on the property. The house is just a 15 second walk over there. But instead of just going right into the house, I just take a little walk around the neighborhood and just let things just kind of settle down and then when I go into family time, it's, you know, things are a little bit more shut off. And I found that that's been helpful too. 

50:33 Joshua Lee

That's really good. I think, you know when I used to commute to an office, I had that drive home time to kind of unwind, but yeah, now that I've got my office on the property as well, little actions, you know, the way I turn off my lights, the way I grab my coat, I feel like Mr. Rogers, you know, putting on the cardigan and taking off the cardigan, but like… Those little actions, I feel like do trigger that activation of like shut down mode. Speaking of time to shut down, man, this has been about an hour long conversation, dude. I've loved it. We've covered so much ground here. This has been just a blessing for me and a ministry to me. And so I appreciate you sharing so generously with all of your tips and stories and the Kairos moments and things that you've learned, man. You said you had some tips and some resources. Where can listeners and viewers go for that?

51:19 - Josh

Yeah. So just go to thewayofkings.com and we'll, we'll gather all these resources and, and just give it away for free. So all the different tools and strategies and templates and things that, you know, benefited us, we're just going to share with the listener. So that's the way of kings.com, and just go there and you'll be able to get those and you can also get on the, uh, the email newsletter. We'll be getting updates and. We'll be sharing more about the Way of Kings as we continue to go on this journey. 

51:55 - Joshua Lee

That's awesome, Josh. I appreciate it, brother. Thank you so much, man. And uh...

52:03 - Josh

It's good. 

52:07 - Joshua Lee 

We can not. Yeah. I appreciate you. Thank you, Josh. 

52:12 - Josh

Oh man. That was awesome. I was such a good call. So appreciate it, brother. Thank you. 

52:17 - Josh

Thank you. 

52:18 - Joshua Lee

Yep. We can, we can